3s, gte, age, wtf?

**Beau** · 09-30-2003, 11:36 AM

I've been following along here and there and it sounds like Toyota has made some pretty sick 4 bangers. One I read about had 20 valves. Can anybody give me the rundown on the details of these engine families, power capabilities, whatever? Or atleast give a brotha a link.

Thanks.

**awdturbo** · 09-30-2003, 12:37 PM

the 3s-gte is a 2.0 4 cylinder turbo and intercooled engine that now has spanned 4 generations of cars. it was first used in the celica all-trac (gt-four) and produced 190 hp and 200 ft lbs. the second gen bumped up the horsepower to 200 and was used in the mr2 turbo and the st185 all trac. the third gen engine is the badass one, but was never available in the U.S. market. it produced somehwere around 260 hp , not sure about the torque rating. it also did away with the mass airflow box and used a map sensor instead, it also incorporated a better turbo than its predecessors. the 4th gen is now in the caldina in japan, an awd turbo matrix basically. in my opinion the 3s-gte is the best 4 cylinder turbo engine ever produced, and is still in production in japan.

The 20 valve engine your talking about is probably a variant of the 4age. they come in to configurations, blacktop and silvertop. not sure of the similarities and differences but i know they produce diffeent hp and torque ratings. they are N/A engines and are popular swaps into any small toyotas. they use a form of varaible valve timing im pretty sure. there are all sorts of aftermarket upgrades for these.

the 2jz-gte is an amazing engine as well, being as it was designed for the supra :grin: it is a sequential twin turbo line 6 setup engine with 3.0 of displacement. it is well known that you can extract crazy amounts of horsepower out of these with stock internals. im not too sure about generational differences on these. (my expertise is on the 3s-gte) .

so all in all toyota has made amazing cars and equally badass engines to go with them. but now toyota offers nothing in the way of performance, wich is really disheartening looking back on all the awesome things they have produced. now all they have is a decent platform for wich to modify, the mr-s. but even that has its downfalls and is too new to get at a good price. ah well maybe soon we will see another awd turbo celica here, or a new horsepower loving supra......

**elballoonrat** · 09-30-2003, 03:28 PM

blacktop 20v=lightened,balanced, and blue printed silvertop(i tink blacktops use different quad throttle bodies then the silvertop?)
map sensored
redline is pretty high, wann say over 8, cant remeber exactly.

silvertop 20v=stronger bottom end(on 20v silvertop is 450hp)
afm sensored

both have oil squirters for the pistons, 18mm wrist pins, vvti, and come stock with a oem tubular header.

**TOYRACR** · 09-30-2003, 04:25 PM

the 91-92 3SGTE motors have a different Head than the 93 heads also

after i purchase my MR2 i had the Hux's look at it and they noticed i had a 93 head on my 92 bottom end. the 93heads have an extra stud.

the 91-93 3SGTE motors came with a CT26 turbo the airflow is a bit restrictive do to a design flaw
so they came out with a CT20b turbo to put on the 94 and 95 models
the J-spec and Autrailian 3SGTE motors have more hp due to different computer config. i believe they are around 220hp but they also use a Ceramic CT20b Turbo. this Ceramic Turbo is the turbo of choice enless going to a aftermarket turbo.

The first 3SGTE motors are said to be able to hold up to 500hp about 25psi or more to the crank any more and it is said that the motor will start to crack up around the water pump area do to too much stress.
the 3rd gen 3S motors are capeable to hold over 700hp easily.

the air flow design with the 3rd Gen 3SGTE is greater
Better turbo, bigger intake and better design head,
Everything about the 3rd Gen motor is Simply BETTER.

thats what i know.

**elballoonrat** · 09-30-2003, 07:10 PM

bill strongs building a frankenstein 3sgte using a old bottom end and new head. not sure what the benefit would be, he is by no means a 3sgte expert though :funny: he should stick to 4a's

**TOYRACR** · 10-01-2003, 11:06 AM

well if he is using a GenIII 3S head He's da MAN! those are the best Heads to use for best HP gain!

**elballoonrat** · 10-01-2003, 03:09 PM

mayeb thats it..

are 3sgte and 3sge the same heads? what the difference between the two? forged crank? rod size? compression? valve size? cams?

**TOYRACR** · 10-01-2003, 03:12 PM

yeah the cams and valves are different
2 different types of compression
the 3SGTE motors were made for Turbo use - lower compression
3SGE motors are N/A and have a higher compression.

3SGE motors are found in the late late 80's celica GTS
and possibly early 90's celicas

**Il Duece** · 10-01-2003, 03:32 PM

Originally Posted by TOYRACR

3SGE motors are found in the late late 80's celica GTS
and possibly early 90's celicas

dont forget the beam's in the altezza

**elballoonrat** · 10-01-2003, 03:45 PM

i want a alltrac pretty bad, i bet i could make a killer rally car outta one. ive never driven one though...are they fun?

**JohnnyB** · 10-01-2003, 04:03 PM

i almost bought an alltrac before the mr2..i shoulda did that instead

**Il Duece** · 10-01-2003, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by TheBoyScout

i almost bought an alltrac before the mr2..i shoulda did that instead

::no:: ......

**awdturbo** · 10-01-2003, 04:56 PM

i want a alltrac pretty bad, i bet i could make a killer rally car outta one. ive never driven one though...are they fun?

damn right , all-wheel-drive grip in corners and launches and turbo intercooled power...unstoppable.

i am probably going to sell my all trac sometime soon, you can have first dibbs on it . all i have to do is sell my '94 gt and fix up the all trac a little bit and sell it, then i will have enough money for my real dream car

**elballoonrat** · 10-01-2003, 10:05 PM

cool, yeah im down. i might buy it before you do the repairs to keep it cheaper for me, im probably going to tear it fown to the shell anyhow. gimme a heads up when you ar eready to sell. If i can get rid of my mgb by the time you are ready to sell i will have th emoney for you, or if you wanna trade the alltrac for the mgb. its a 1972, i have two sets of carbs for it, nice exhaust, new interior, alpine stereo, etc etc.